U.S. Institute of Peace experts discuss the latest foreign policy issues from around the world in On Peace, a brief weekly collaboration with SiriusXM's POTUS Channel 124.

Transcript

Laura Coates: Let's turn now and continue our conversation of what's happening overseas, but this time with respect to what Pope Francis' trip was like in Papua New Guinea and Timor. Gordon Peake is the USIP's Pacific Islands senior advisor, and he joins us now. Good morning, Gordon. How are you?

Gordon Peake: I'm good, Laura. How are you? I'm sitting in one of our, I'm in headquarters here in USIP, and I'm sitting in one of our soundproof booths, which kind of is reminiscent of a confession box. So it's probably a good, an appropriate, place to be talking about Pope Francis' kind of mega trip to Asia.

Laura Coates: Well before you describe to me all the ways you have sinned, let's focus on Pope Francis for a second if we can, and talk about what has happened. He has wrapped up the largest, I think, the farthest trip of his personal journey. What's going on?

Gordon Peake: Yeah, he took a, just a huge trip. I mean, I know you're someone that travels a lot and works on little sleep. But if I could just give you a sense about how extensive his trip was, he began in Jakarta, the capital of Indonesia. He flew to Port Moresby, capital of Papua New Guinea. From there, he flew up on an Australian military plane up to a kind of jungle town on the border. He then went to Timor-Leste, where he celebrated a mass in front of half the population. And he went to Singapore to wrap it all up in this 10-day swing, which is pretty exhausting, even to talk about, never mind for an 87-year-old pontiff who was in a wheelchair for most of the visit.

Laura Coates: So what were the reasons that he was going? Was it just a part of a pre-planned tour? Was he trying to have certain deliverables? Were there meetings in particular? 

Gordon Peake: So I think there was a bunch of reasons that he was there. First, it was a long-standing engagement that was cut short previously because of COVID. But I think he wanted to draw attention to some of the things that you even talked about, even in the preamble to this. He wanted to talk about climate change, in particular when he was in Indonesia. So Jakarta, the capital of Indonesia, is forever suffering floods to the point that the nation's leaders are actually moving the capital to another place entirely. So climate change has been something that has been really a major feature of Pope Francis's pontificate, and he's really wanted to sort of focus on that. And kind of, no pun intended, he has a bit of a bully pulpit in these matters, and he was kind of determined to use kind of straight, unspoken, or, you know, plain spoken language to describe some of the issues. When he traveled to Papua New Guinea, he really was anxious to talk about the lamentable conditions and violence against women that happens in that country, which is one of the most dangerous places in the world to be a woman.

Laura Coates: When he accomplished this task of going, in particular, did you have a sense that, by virtue of him shining a spotlight with his presence alone, that there could be some progress in trying to accomplish these directives?

Gordon Peake: Yeah, I mean, I think all political leaders speak in rhetoric, and the pope has obviously a major spiritual dimension, but he's also a political leader as well. And what he is able to do in a way that most visiting diplomats or dignitaries don't do or can't do because of their own relationships is speak plainly to the issues. So I think time will tell whether his words in Indonesia about climate change or his words in Papua New Guinea about the state of the country's women will bear fruit, so to speak. But he really, it was really striking, kind of, listening to his words. There was no gloss around them. There was no embroidery around them. What he wanted to say was: ‘There's major problems here. There are major problems of domestic violence. And you, the political leaders of Papua New Guinea, who I'm looking straight in the in the eye at the minute, you need to sort of tackle those issues, because they are holding your country back in a number of ways.’ 

Laura Coates: He called for, as you mentioned, Papua New Guinea has some of the highest rates of domestic violence in the entire world. I'm curious as to, one, why? But also, you know, what could solve it?

Gordon Peake: Well, that's a really good question. I think there's quite a masculine, sort of male dominated society. But that's no excuse for the treatment that women have received over the years in Papua New Guinea where it's estimated that 1.5 million — the population is 10 million, so 1.5 is a third of women in the country — each year suffer domestic violence. And it's something that seems to be almost like an intractable issue. There's lots of work that is trying to be done on it. And I think what the pope was trying to do was say, you know, ‘This is a major issue.’ You’ve got to kind of work on it, and you've got to take it seriously. And the male dominated leaders of Papua New Guinea, I mean, Papua New Guinea has a Westminster-style parliament. It has 118 members in the parliament, just two of them are women, and that's two more than were in the parliament the last time. So, I think he was trying to shed a light on this, and kind of turn a spotlight, the mirror, back on the country and to people that are supporting the country. I mean, the United States is taking ever more interest in Papua New Guinea, and to say, you know, ‘This is a major issue, guys, we’ve got to all work on it and think about it together.’

Laura Coates: And there's some sort of a major sorcery problem, is that what's happening? With people being accused of being witches?

Gordon Peake: Yeah, it sounds almost medieval. There's something called sorcery accusation relate violence, where men, women and children are accused of being witches and sorcerers, and some are even being sort of burned at the stake for this. And this is an issue that is spreading like wildfire in Papua New Guinea. It's spreading — I heard some of your segments earlier on talking about misinformation — it's spreading because of misinformation, and it's spreading with cell phones at the speed of light. And so, the whispering campaign starts against Person X, and then it kind of escalates very, very quickly. A colleague of mine who works on the issue calls it a wildfire because as soon as a rumor starts, it's really, really hard to hose it down, tamp it down. And it sounds almost medieval talking about this, Lauren, we're speaking in 2024. But it's a major, major issue in Papua New Guinea, something that the government is understandably embarrassed about, doesn't want to tarnish its reputation about, but something that the pope drew, kind of, very firm attention to.

Laura Coates: This is really incredible to think about him visiting, and also what could come of this, particularly. And also, the fairer treatment of workers now that he has, I'm assuming, returned. Is there, do we have any plans? Do we know if he's going someplace else in that region? Are others going to follow in terms of politicians now that he has been there?

Gordon Peake: You know, I don't actually know the answer to that question. I think what people are doing in Papua New Guinea, but also in Timor-Leste, where he visited as well, is kind of reflecting on the words. And I think you can see in social media, you can see in commentaries, you can see in, you know, hits that you see on YouTube, that his words are percolating. His words are filtering. And he's kind of been asking questions that, you know, we all sometimes don't like looking at ourselves in the mirror and seeing what we what we find. And he's really asking really tough questions about that. I think he's kind of laid the ground in lots of ways, and now it's up to others to follow.

Laura Coates: So important to hear your perspectives tonight and give us the rundown. Thank you so much for joining us, Gordon. You can now get out of the confessional box for a little bit. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Gordon Peake: Bless you, Laura. Thank you so much.